eternalsinners

We have introduced a Sin Points™ system for our guild, for those familiar with DKP, it's almost the same, just taillored for our own guild. This system is still under development and will change and evolve as the guild does. It may change at a moments notice.

Currently ZA will contribute toward Sin point accumilation, but Sin points will not be spent inside ZA. This will remain so until ZA becomes just a badge run for all.
Kara will only give sin points for a full completion in one night, of 4 sins.

To sign up you will have to use the link provided in the 'additional links' box on the left side of the main website. Once on the DKP site, use the register link on the right hand side.

Simple outline for the sytem is this:

Recruiting and Trial Members

Upon acceptance of trial membership, the member will have to become raid ready and have ALL the required tools to join us in raids, that includes the addons and voice comms needed. (all of which can be obtained via our website and forums) Trial members who tryout with us will not be able to bid on loot during their trial period,as they have no Sin points. (They may however enter a minus state, under specific circumstances). They may also aquire loot if no full member requires it also, during the trial run.

After three trial runs with us or a week (depending which comes first), the new members will become a full member if satisfactory and will obtain the base ammount of 15 Sins.

Current Guild/Raid Members

All current full members of the guild will begin with a base 15 Sins upon reaching 'member' or 'sinner' status within the guild. They are allowed to loot on raids.

If ANY member is not signed to the DKP site and their name does not appear on the user list of that site they are not eligible to bid on items and no Sin points will be awarded / deducted for any raids they participate in. If signed, even on trial you can accumilate sins on your runs, so it pays to sign up as soon as possible. You have been warned. I will not create your account for you.

Sins are obtained via several methods:

• Signing for raids and showing up IN ADVANCE of invites at the allocated time. (5 Sins)
• If you signed and turned up on time, but are not required for that run, for whatever reason you will still obtain the 3 sin points from signing and 75% of the total sins earned from the run. This is only given to you if you are online and ready at a moments notice, if you log off, you will not obtain anything!
• If you do not sign for a raid, but choose to raid or are required due to loss of players, you will not gain the 3 Sins signature bonus, however you will gain Sins for any bosses downed from that time and additional bonuses if any.
• Boss kills, 1 Sin per kill or 3 Sins for a first time kill or progression kill, if considered as such.
• Finishing a raid. If you are there till the raid ends, you will gain an additional 2 Sin points. (this is only given if you obtained the 3 sins signup bonus. In other words, you participated during the whole raid.
• Hourly Sins of 4 are given to active raid participants during progress runs. (progess run means new fight, new encounters where not many bosses will be downed).
• Sins can be awarded for sportsmanship, if we need a healer and need to remove a current participant, you may be rewarded for giving up your spot. (Usually receiving the same ammount of sin as players still in the raid)
• Finishing an instance in a single night will reward each participant with an extra 4 sins for good work up until that instance is deemed truly on farm status. (cleared repeatedly in one sitting, no wipes)
• Contributing towards the guild bank. (see below)

Sins are lost via several methods also:

• Signing to raids and not showing (No excuses!!) even if it cannot be helped, you will lose 5 Sin points. The second time you fail to show you will recieve a 10 sin penalty. This is scaled each time by x2, so a third time would result in 20 sins being removed. Typically though, 3 consecutive no shows for invites and you will lose your raiding status, demotion and/or suffer severe sin penalties. even removal from the guild.
• Unannounced raid spec changes can now result in a sin point wipe. Complete removal of your total sins. (Unsure? see the raiding/guild rules)
• Mis-behaviour, depending on the severity of your case, you may suffer a sin penalty or removal from the group.
• Continual poor performance, after being told, could result in loss of sin points or worse. These include but are not limited to: Aggro pulling.
• Failure to adhere to the guilds policies, for addons and being ready to raid will also make you suffer Sin penalties.

Those are a basic outline of how you gain and lose Sins in general.

Spending your Sin Points / Bidding Rules

Current item costs are as follows:

• Trash Mob - Random Epics / Recipes: Min Bid = 3 Sin
• Boss Loot - Random Epic Armor,Weapons and Recipes: Min Bid = 3 Sins
• Boss Loot - Tier Tokens: Min Bid = 5 Sins
• Boss Recipes - Min Bid = 3 Sin

Be aware that some classes will get priority over others on some items. ie: Tanks and Healers will try to be geared first. Guild professions will always be given priority on recipes. If they do not need it then it goes up for bidding by other members with that profession. (You must have the skill lvl required to use a recipe). All bidding is done in whole numbers. You cannot bid 2.5 Sins on a item for example.

Bidding Rules

• All bidding takes place in the raid chat, not on TS. Please keep raid chat clear of any chat whilst bidding is taking place. If you fail to do so, you may lose Sin points.
• You can bid on any item you wish, within reason, ie: a cloth wearer cannot bid on plate just to push up the price.
• You must access the DKP site and find your total ammount of sins prior to a raid as to not overbid on items, overbidding will not be tolerated. You should be fully aware of your current Sin Point standings. If you overbid, your bid will be refused and the sins points you have bid may be deducted as penalty.
• If you overbid and it appears after the DKP has been tallied.. you are banned from accumilating DKP on your next raid and cannot recieve any loot until you have enough DKP to spend on an item. Even if no one else needs that item.
• Tactical bidding is a natural part of DKP usage, pushing up the price of an item in order to retain Sin points for better items later on... however if you do this on an item that you do not need and are caught, you will lose the an ammount of Sin points equal to your bid and your bid will be refused (discounted). I will not tolerate people pushng up prices on items they have no intention of actually using.
• I ask that all of you inspect your fellow raider, if it clearly shows that they could use that item a lot more than yourself, do the right thing and pass on it. The judgement is yours to call and I hope we are all here to help eachother and not out for greed for ourselves.
• Bidding must be done in increments of 5 sins from now on. Bidding up in 1's and 2's is taking far too long. If your max DKP is 12 for example you can bid the odd ammount however in order to beat that bid, the next person would have to bid 15. This is to reduce the time taken to loot bosses and to speed up overal raid times and ultimately progress.
• When you no longer intend to bid on an item, please clearly state in raid chat that you PASS on the item so that the leaders know and that they are not waiting for a bid that isn't coming.

Additional ways to obtain Sins

Contribution based sins are currently not active until further notice but when activated will be something like this.

Contributions to the guild bank can be made, the follwing is a small guide of items that count towards your tallied ammount:

[*]Herbs,Potions,Elixirs,Flasks (TBC)
[*]Shards,Dusts,Wizard Oil, Mana Oil (TBC)
[*]Cut and Uncut Gems of Rare Quality.
[*]Cloths and Leathers (TBC)
[*]Primals (Fire,Water,Air,Mana,Earth,Life,Shadow, Primal Mights will be considered as 5,one of each of it's base components.)
[*]Fel Iron/Steel,Adamantite (or hardened),Khorium,Eternium Ores/Bars.
[*]Foods which will buff but only including: 30 Stam,23 Spell dmg, Healing and mana regen, AP and Agi. (TBC)

Items above must be found or produced within the confines of TBC expansion, items from the original game do not count. The top 5 contributors will be awarded Sin points for their efforts, thus in turn may make the difference when bidding on items within raids. Only myself will be aware of the contributions made by each member, other members will not know apart from their own. This ensures contributors do it off thier own back and do not know how much they need in order to beat someone else. They are tallied on a weekly basis from 0:00 Monday untill 23:59 the following Sunday.

Ammount awarded is as follows:

• First place = 5 Sins
• Second place = 4 Sins
• Third place = 3 Sins
• Fourth place = 2 Sins
• Fifth place = 1 Sins

Be aware contributions made directly into the guild bank will not be tallied up. All items you wish to count towards your tallied ammount must be sent to Velarusa, via the ingame mail system with a note listing the items included and your characters name. This will be done as fairly as possible.


Saint Points

Being in Eternal Sinners means 'sinning' is good however being Saintly is frowned upon, if you recieve a total of three Saint Points there is a good chance you will be removed from the guild.
Saint points are awarded for misconduct,not showing up when signed ect. Each player is given an (X) in their officers note, anyone with three will be up for discussion by the officers on the action taken.
If you are given a mark, you will be told of it happening and why and what happens if you gain another mark.

This post will change over the next few days as the system is discussed and tweaked. It will continue to evolve as we iron out any bugs and encounter problems, hopefully soon it will become the norm.

*Bumped* This has been updated. (11.03.2008) please read and give feedback!!

Bit confused with the hourly sin multiplier. First you say you get 0.5 for each hour while the raid is active, then only on progression runs? *confused*

And also, will contributing shards to the guild bank count?

Hehe, ok I re-worded those two lines.. both are called hourly sins, although depending what your doing depends on the ammount.

Hourly sins of 0.5 are given to people who signed but are not actually part of the raid. (Members who were left out of the run for whatever reason). The reason behind this is simple, people who were active and able to raid but left out do not miss out on a run entirely, they can still aquire Sins. Which puts them in good shape for bids when they do get to raid.

Hourly sins of 1 are given to players who participate in the actual run on progress runs, where multiple boss kills may not happen. This still mean people aquire Sins from the run on wipe nights.



Hoped that helped clear it up for you?

I feel like a sinner! !!!

just wondering how many sin'kp? do we start with?

when you become a full member, you recieve a base amount of 15 sins. Sign up on the site for it, you can find a link to it on the main page

Clarified the finish bonus a bit more, the hourly sin if you were not chosen and also added the sportsmanship sins bonus.

Finish bonus could have been awarded to someone who joined the raid right at the end and did not contribute much, this was deemed slightly unfair, you will only recieve the finish bonus if you also obtained the start bonus.

If you signed and were ready but not chosen, you will only aquire hourly sins if you are online. If you log off after, thus could not be called on later you do not recieve the hourly sins.

Sportmanship bonus, from time to time we require additonal tanks and healers for specific fights. which could mean having to remove participants from the raid. If you give up your spot you may be rewarded for your actions as you will not recieve the start or finish bonus depending on if you swapped out or in.

Updated the rules, to clarify a few things and also added the section on Looting, Costs and Rules for bidding. Ensure you are aware of the new rules.

Edited the rules:

• Explained Kara now only gives sin points for full completion in one night.
• Added note about uncheduled raids, not giving sinpoints.
• Increased the sign up bonus from 2 to 3 sin points.
• Quadrupled the ammount of hourly sins gained from progress runs for participants and people not chosen. 1 per hour to 4 per hour.
• Increased the sin points rewarded for progress boss kills from 2 to 3.
• Changed the sin cost of random trash epics from 2 to 3 sin points.

Edited the post:

• Clarified what happens if you sign to the DKP site early.
• Updated the signup bonus to 5 sins, also adjusted the ammount of sins gathered by people not chosen for raid, who did sign and remained online.
• Corrected a few mistakes in the 'Sins are obtained via several methods:' section.
• Updated the newly discussed penalties for not showing up.
• Added the new penalty for spec changes.
• Updated the poor performance to include aggro pulling.
• Changed the cost of boss recipes to 3 sins minimum.
• Made it clearer that active contributions are still not yet active.